Data + Data + Data = Relevance with Daniel from DomainsBot | Saw.com

Speaker 1: 0:00

In a previous episode, I did a review of the ICA conference in Las Vegas and most recently I attended the ICANN conference in Puerto Rico. Like I said about the ICA conference, I think if you're serious about the domain industry, this is a conference you should attend. At these shows there are a lot of different corporate vendors. When I decided to become a regular at these shows, it takes time to get to know the folks that attend. Daniel from DomainsBot is one of them, and Domainsbot provides an interesting service. They assist registrars with their search results, which is actually an extremely hard thing to do, and they also offer a suite of brand protection services, amongst other data-related services.

Speaker 1: 0:38

You know, it is always interesting to speak to people with a totally different point of view in the domain industry, and Daniel is a passionate, funny and entertaining person that I've gotten to know over the past few years. He offers some insightful information and a great perspective from his vantage point in the industry. Hearing his story about DomainsBot, with its humble beginnings, programming in his friend's parents' basement, his struggle with cancer and what they are working on today, leads for a lengthy but great episode. As an aside, when I have a guest come on the video channel and we talk for a few minutes, then begin, you know, and our conversation just kind of took off and I decided mid-conversation to hit record. And it might seem like you're eavesdropping and I probably break all the podcast rules, but sometimes the best conversations happen before I hit record or after I sign off, and I wanted you to hear it too.

Speaker 2: 1:28

So thanks for listening and enjoy Right now, because it's been pretty good conversation so far, so let's just keep going the reality is that, at the end of the day, these gatherings of the industry, and especially for such a niche industry like ours, um are really the opportunity where all the industry come together and we have, we have to say in ital da cosa nasce cosa, from one thing is born another thing.

Speaker 2: 2:09

And you can kind of apply to anything, but the funny thing is that it's actually used the most exactly to talk about the fact that when you have a connection with someone, from one thing it can lead to another thing Da cosa nasce cosa. So the reality is that every time that you go to these conferences, you learn more about the industry. You learn more about your customers, your potential customers. It's really like the place where stuff happens and honestly I don't want to sound like a fomoist, you know, fear of missing out, but uh, but I think that it's actually worth it. Look, I've been going to conferences for 20 years now. Actually it's 2024, so I can say it with pride. It's been freaking 20 years and at least five. There have been some years that have been doing 10 or 15 conferences and I can count it on my hand, on the fingers of my hand, the ones that I that I can say, ah, damn, I could have skipped this and nothing would have happened yeah, there's always.

Speaker 1: 3:22

And, and the funny thing is is even the conferences sometimes that are lightly attended. Um, you end up meeting like the best client of your life. You know, and that when you meet that person or creates the best relationship that leads, you know, you could also create, like you know, the um saying the, uh, the, the six degrees of kevin bacon. Have you heard of that?

Speaker 2: 3:41

I've heard about it, but I don't remember exactly what it was about.

Speaker 1: 3:47

There's six degrees of separation. And then there's the whole thing of the Kevin Bacon theory where, with six degrees of separation, for example, you actually know the king and you're connected to the king and you're actually only. Well, actually, I'll give you one You're actually connected to the president of the united states by me. My old boss her husband was a um was the secret service for donald trump. He worked in the secret service for him.

Speaker 1: 4:18

So how many? So how many degrees of separation are you from the president? United states? And then the same, yeah, and then the, and then the same would go like who does he know? Well, he knows, the Pope, I can't.

Speaker 2: 4:28

I used to, I used to work for the Vatican actually Funny story. You said you really yeah, I did, what did you do?

Speaker 1: 4:35

Well, the thing, you definitely weren't an altar boy. Sorry, I said you weren't an altar boy.

Speaker 2: 4:49

Actually I'm going to say something that is gonna get a. That's gonna really get a lot of heat on me. But here's the funny thing I wasn't an altar boy but I was actually a papa boy, as we were. It was as we were defined back in the 2000.

Speaker 2: 4:55

When here's the thing, in in the year 2000, john paul the second, actually um had this jubilee. That was a jubilee year and this jubilee was mostly intended it was the jubilee of young people. So during that summer, the summer of the year 2000, rome received like two million young people from all around the world and I started in a Catholic school and obviously, you know, I used to speak. I speak English and Italian and Spanish since I was a kid. So obviously you know, I was approached by one of the teachers saying hey, would you be interested in helping us out? And obviously, when they explained to me that in late June, mid-july, 350 boys and girls from Sweden, denmark and Norway were actually going to be hosted at my house, obviously you know 18-year-old me obviously said absolutely, I'm going to do whatever it takes to help.

Speaker 2: 5:58

And I ended up actually helping a lot with the organization and we used to go around with a blue cup and a badge and during that week, what's really funny is that we owned the eternal city. We owned it like, yeah, there was so much crazy stuff happening because, you see, when you receive two million people, you gotta think about a lot of things like, okay, I'm hosting 500 peoples in a school, where are they gonna sleep? Where are they going to sleep? Where are they going to eat? What are we going to feed them?

Speaker 2: 6:28

You know, the organizational part was much more complex than you may think. It was just okay. Here's the place is that you got to take care of a lot of things, but it was. It was an amazing experience actually, and uh, and during that year, during that, during those two, I think in particular, it was kind of the culmination of it. I remember that practically, you know, with the blue cap and a badge, you can do whatever the hell you wanted and you were going to get away with it. Do you still have the blue cap and the badge? I might actually still have it. I surely have the badge in a box in my house in Rome.

Speaker 2: 7:05

You should wear that too, oh my God, that would be actually quite. That would be quite funny. That would actually be great. That would actually be quite funny. I'm going to look for it next time, next time I'm in Rome, I'm going to look for it Actually, yeah, so, oh, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1: 7:19

No, you go ahead.

Speaker 2: 7:19

We're talking about the badge no, no, I just wanted to say that one of the trophies, uh, uh, that I actually came back uh, sorry, brought back from colombia um, last time that I was in italy. I'm actually going to show it to you is actually that news hang on, you can barely see it because it gets blurred but that, that newspaper that is actually hanging on on the wall, that is actually the newspaper of the most important sport um newspaper in italy. The next day after that, we won the world cup in 2006 and you weren't excited about that.

Speaker 1: 7:56

No, absolutely, you know it was. It was like nothing.

Speaker 2: 7:59

The stuff that I saw that night, my friend, the stuff that I saw, oh saw that night was just bananas, like you know.

Speaker 2: 8:08

People just bathing in the fountains of Rome. We were. I was actually watching the match in the Circo Maximo and because the mayor put some maxi screens and there were like 350 people, 350,000 people down there watching the final against France, and I remember that, even if, let's say, the event ended at midnight, I couldn't literally physically get home before like 3 or 4 am, just because there were so many people on the street and I saw people just oh yeah, that's a fountain from the 1600s, but we want the World Cup. Who cares? And they would just throw themselves. It was really hot, it was July, so yeah, it was absolutely crazy and it was like there's no history between France and Italy.

Speaker 2: 9:00

No, absolutely, we go in unison as one people with mutual love for our, as we call them, the Transalpine cousins. They are our cousins and called Transalpini because they are at the other side of the Alps, uh-huh.

Speaker 1: 9:20

Okay, that's how it works. So you're born and bred, grew up in Rome.

Speaker 2: 9:24

Actually I was technically born in Colombia because my mom is Colombian and my dad is Italian, although my mom lived in Italy for like 50-something years, or actually maybe even more. But yeah, but I did grow up in Italy, studied in there and everything, until five years ago that I moved back.

Speaker 1: 9:45

Got it All right. So this is a little backwards for our normal episode and our normal listeners and those that were tuning in. We were actually talking about before we started to record just us going on the conference circuit. And when I worked at Uniregistry, I knew of Daniel and I think we probably shook hands and said hello a few times. But when I left Uniregistry, I knew of Daniel and I think we probably shook hands and said hello a few times. But when I left Uniregistry and I went on my own and started my own business, I had a more formal business conversation with Daniel at ICANN in Montreal.

Speaker 2: 10:14

Yes, I remember that.

Speaker 1: 10:17

Yep, and his business partner, emiliano, and so I'm going to read you a little bit of his bio to give you some background, and then we're going to talk about why I think he's a great fit for this show and we're going to get into some really interesting stuff. Daniel Rizzini Meja, did I pronounce your last name properly?

Speaker 2: 10:32

Mejia, it's just because it's Spanish for James. Mejia, yeah, mejia.

Speaker 1: 10:37

How about that? Is that better?

Speaker 2: 10:38

That was actually much better again.

Speaker 1: 10:41

That was much better. I'm getting there All right. We'll work on it when I come visit. You are a successful entrepreneur and business leader with over 20 years of experience in the tech industry. You are the founder and chief strategy officer of DomainsBot. He has played a pivotal role in shaping the company's growth and direction. What DomainsBot does and I think it does a lot more than says this, we're going to get into it Empowers online companies with data to better understand their customers and markets, enabling them to act on insights that will make their customers happier and businesses stronger. You're fluent in English, italian, spanish, and you currently reside in Colombia with your family, where you enjoy downtime between business travel and contributing to the country's growing technology community. And you have, how many cows?

Speaker 2: 11:26

I have about. Well, actually technically they're my mom's, but uh, we have around 100 cows, like 90 something.

Speaker 1: 11:32

100 cows, yeah have you ever branded a?

Speaker 2: 11:34

cow. I have vaccinated them, though you vaccinated, yeah, yeah, and believe me, giving an injection to a cow is much harder than you think.

Speaker 1: 11:45

I'm sure your partner in the business is Emiliano Pasquitelli, pasqualetti, pasqualetti, pasqualetti, and the real specialties of the company that I understand there are is domain search, domain suggestion technology, business intelligence services. That used to be called Pandalytics, because I remember you gave me a demo of that a long time ago, and that helps spot threats and opportunity. From market trends. You can understand your own customers from that. Correct Helps with marketing or sales initiatives as well. Through data you can identify M&A opportunities. You also have a brand protection product that can help get people in a threat monitoring service.

Speaker 1: 12:29

Yeah, and it allows you to get visibility on your on company's CCTLD registrations, extended visibility over content on homepages of any domain name, and you're obviously using machine learning and and you've been doing this for about 20 years and it's funny. I asked you for your bio and you gave me this paragraph. It was a little longer but I cut it back a little bit but you didn't really have much other experience than DomainsBot on there. So have you been really been doing DomainsBot for the last almost 20 years and been in the domain business the entire time.

Speaker 2: 13:06

Yes, and also you have to consider something domains bot has been the company that I've only worked in in my entire professional life. Are you kidding? Absolutely your first job, man, I I created a company that I was 17.

Speaker 2: 13:23

Okay, so when we started kind of dealing with the domain names, maxarali and I, we started. We were literally 17. It was our last year of high school. We started. It all started very, very, you know, oddly in a way because I'm not exaggerating this is exactly how we went. Max and I were in front of the computer. I remember he had a very good internet connection back in the day which was in a ISDN connection. So again, we're talking late 90s and, oh yeah, and at some point we stumble upon a page which was, we discovered it being was it called Domain Finder or something like that from Verisign that said this domain name is for sale or something like that. And I remember that I turned around and looked Max straight into the eyes and I said what the hell is a domain name man? And he said I have no clue, let's figure it out. And 20-something years later I'm here talking to you. Hell is the domain name man? And he said I have no clue, let's figure it out.

Speaker 2: 14:26

And, um, 20 something years later, I'm here talking to you well, a lot has happened in between but uh, but yeah, that's actually really how, how we got into domain names, we just got passionate about it, max, and I always had a nick for for doing things, doing something in the business world. Since we were really small, in fact, you know, when we started kind of we do much more structured website, I think that we were really 18 or something like that. I think that I wasn't even. I wasn't even 19 back in the day, and you know we used to write the code ourselves.

Speaker 1: 15:07

By the way, how did you learn code? You said you learned. Said you learned like people just say, oh, and then I wrote code, but like you were 19, so how did you learn how to write code, just yourself?

Speaker 2: 15:14

I used it. I used a very, very, uh interesting technique, which is just bang your head in front of the monitor to the monitor until it works. And and the reason why I say this? Because I remember that back in the day and again we're talking late 90s, first 2000s I was just getting into, you know, writing maybe some basic HTML or some PHP code back in the day and obviously you didn't have the access to knowledge that you have today. You know that you might have a trillion courses on all of this, so you just would go to the PHP documentation and just try to make it work and press F5 and refresh that page until the thing that you wanted to appear, it does appear.

Speaker 2: 15:59

Besides, the funny thing was because we were studying, studying, um mostly. For example, during the weekends, max parents used to go to the. You know they had a house in the mountains and one on the seaside, so max and I would stay in rome and just, you know, pull a couple of old nighters there um to, you know, to try to make it, to make it work. But it was, uh, it was really a time of discovery. It was a time of really trying to understand as much as possible and again, we didn't have, let's say, a formal preparation to what we were doing, but we really had to learn it through experience. And to some extent experience and to some extent I still do, you know, I still do. One of the nicest things that anyone has ever told me was, oddly enough, said by Emiliano, which, in the 20 years that we have known each other, might have said four nice things about me. But no, because he's very severe in his judgment, but he's very, he's very truthful, you know he's very sincere.

Speaker 2: 17:08

And recently he said you know, I can say a lot of things about know, and that's kind of what what we had to do in this in these 20 years. You know, there's really, it's really been a path of discovery, of applying our own intuition, of applying our own creativity in a way, to the things that we're presenting in front of us. Even the whole analytics and the whole data actually was the result of a very interesting conversation I had with a registrar back in the academic in Brussels. I don't remember exactly what year it was, but I think it was maybe 2011 or something like that and I was talking to a registrar and to a person's registrar, and I asked him, just out of curiosity, the following question I said how many domain names do you have under management? And the person told me x million. So I turned around.

Speaker 2: 18:21

I remember we were actually having a glass of wine during music night when there was music night back in the good old days of the ICANN meetings. I never went to a music meeting, oh, sorry. So a long time ago at ICANN meetings, there was this thing called music night, where the whole community would come together and there was going to be like people from the industry playing, uh, you know, roberto gaitano, andrei kolesnikov, all of them would actually, uh, would actually play, um, play music, and there was also a kind of a karaoke like people from the industry would sing, which obviously yeah, uh. You know it might sound bad, but, for example, margarita from DotCL, she has one of the most amazing voices I have heard.

Speaker 2: 19:09

Yeah, absolutely, margarita, you know, can, absolutely, you know, knock your socks off when it comes to singing. You know, she has an amazing voice. It's one of my memories from the music and everybody was looking forward to actually hearing her sing. Or Roberto with the saxophone Roberto plays the sax like nobody's business and um, yeah, but, but nevertheless, nevertheless.

Speaker 2: 19:33

So, during that music night, I'm, I'm, I'm talking with this person and I and I, you know. After that, he tells me the number of domain name under management, which is kind of an indicator that everybody knows, right, uh, it's like it's not no one's secret. And then I turn around and I ask him but uh, do you know what people do with these domain names? Why do they talk about? Do they sell shoes? Do they sell ice cream? Are they porn websites? What is it? And he said I have no clue. And that got me thinking because I started asking myself how is that possible? You know that that that registrars and registries, you know they handle, they're really the foundation of the internet and they have no clue what's happening at the, you know, at the higher, the higher floors, you know that's, that's the important part.

Speaker 2: 20:22

So I started studying, trying to figure out as many things as possible let's say about, you know, about domain names, how they used and um, and I remember that the reason actually, um, the reason why it's it was actually called pandalytics, is because in the industry, everybody knows me as, as Panda, to the point I don't know if I told you this that I receive business emails, like serious business emails, where the body of the email is completely legitimate business stuff. That actually starts, hey, panda. It all started in 2008 because Francesco Cetrato he's one of my closest friends we actually met in the industry one night, I think we were in LA at an ICANN meeting and I was kind of lost in my thoughts, making a very panda-like face, and he turns around and he says you know what, dude, I just noticed something you really look like a panda. And since that, there was a bunch of people around that they were starting looking at me. They all agreed and at that moment it was really not that much that I could do, like I.

Speaker 2: 21:32

I said I can fight it all day long or just or just own it. So I said, okay, let's, let's do, let's, let's make it a panda, so, so then you call the panda lytics no, but there's a reason. Actually it's not because of egotistical leniences.

Speaker 1: 21:50

I always thought it was called Panda because of the Panda update with Google, and it had something to do with the tech, in that that was always what I thought, but I never bought it.

Speaker 2: 21:57

You're looking at the Panda in PandaLytics.

Speaker 1: 22:00

You're ugly.

Speaker 2: 22:02

My ugly face is the reason the reason actually was much more technical.

Speaker 2: 22:08

While I was kind of trying to put together the prototype and all the different pieces of code that it needed for me to validate, I was actually pushing into our company's repository and one of the things that I used to do back in the day was to put panda as a prefix on all these different pieces of code, so my tech team would know that that's actually my stuff. They don't have to worry about it. Just might be something that it doesn't even go to production. It was just me tinkering.

Speaker 2: 22:36

So one night I was uh, I think it was maybe 1 am or something I was in Rome alone in my house and it was just me sitting in front of the keyboard and I had a glass of white wine next to me and I said you know what? Screw it, I'm just going to try to lay down kind of a structure of this. And I opened a software that I used to kind of write very basic code back in the day and the first thing that the software asks you is what is the name of the project? So I started thinking I have to put panda. So the guys know that that's not like production stuff, that's just me, and in the beginning I wanted to call it Domains Bot Analytics, even if it was the most boring name ever produced. So at that point I said, well, panda Analytics, I just mashed them together and the rest is history.

Speaker 1: 23:34

And then you guys changed the name. Now you're calling it your business intelligence service. Well, the thing is that it's actually different from PandaLytics. This is actually a very important difference you see PandaLytics at.

Speaker 2: 23:44

This is actually a very important difference. You see, pandalytics, at the very beginning, was actually and it still is a data access tool. What you do is that if you have a question in your mind like I wonder if there are any dot banana domain names registered in Indonesia that are hosted at Stargate Technologies just making a weird example with an SSL and email activated that question, pandalytics helps you translate it into a query that actually goes to this ginormous database that actually fits that system. The business intelligence tool, which is Insights, is different because it allows you to have the bird's eye view to look at trends. It allows you to make queries, that's for sure. But the thing is that you can visualize in a different way.

Speaker 2: 24:35

While Pandalytics is, first of all, a much easier, much lower level type of service because obviously the business intelligence tool it needs a little bit of getting used to, although it's very intuitive compared to all the other business intelligence tools out there. But it's really an analysis at a different level. You are getting the data. With Pandalytics, you are getting the data, you are getting some visualizations, but when it comes to that granularity, to really getting all the different shades that the data can talk to you about. That's why it's called business intelligence, because it's really two different purposes. In a way, they are all coming from the same data set, but it's the way that you look at it that it's actually different.

Speaker 1: 25:27

Okay, got it. So that's one part of your business, and then the other part is domain search and domain suggestions. Correct, right, when did you? So what? So, by the sound of it, pandalytics came first Actually, came second, because it was around 2011.

Speaker 2: 25:43

The domain suggestion started in 2004.

Speaker 1: 25:47

Okay. So you thought okay, I want to register a domain name, the results of the search, which, just as a side search, is a very hard thing to do for a company. Programmers can build all kinds of different things, but search and search suggestion in general I've been told by multiple developers it is a serious pain in the ass.

Speaker 1: 26:08

It is it is, and people don't realize what a pain in the ass it is. And I don't know if you can mention it, but a lot of registrars that people might search on are using this product, which is providing search results and suggestions to users at the registrar level, because they don't want to deal with it themselves. And you've created this product, but you started it in 2004. 2004,. Yes, so you went in your first business where you didn't know what a domain name was, and now you're going to use domain names and provide search results, which, again, is a pain in the ass. And is Anne, a self-taught developer, and your other friend, your colleague, max.

Speaker 2: 26:46

Yeah, we also had other developers back in the day actually that we gathered, like obviously, you know, I've always been, you know, more focused on the conceptualization of a product. If I can kind of build it or program it, even if it's just a kind of a scratchy thing like you know, just something out there to test it out, I'm obviously going to do it. But back in the day, especially when we started with domain suggestion, I didn't take care directly of the development At that moment, I was already more theorizing what were the features or what were the characteristics or how to get to relevant suggestions. Because, you know, especially in 2004, we didn't have access to the same instruments that we have today and that was actually the challenge. You know Nowadays, you know you have, uh yeah, you have machine learning, but even the compute capabilities of a server actually have, you know, increased a million fold.

Speaker 1: 27:53

So obviously, you know, back in that day, doing that it was, it was way harder and um well, thinking back to 2004, though, like, even if you went to google in 2004 and, let's say you typed in Facebook wrong, it would give you the suggestion of did you mean this, which it still does from time to time. Right, correct, but like, that was very rudimentary. Now it gives you, like, it just gives you the result, it just guesses that you know what it is, and then it kind of fixes it for you.

Speaker 2: 28:22

Absolutely, absolutely then it kind of fixes it for you, absolutely, absolutely. But back in the day, obviously, all these things were literally happening. Like you know, all the technologies and all the things that today we give it for granted, we're, we're absolutely, uh, you know, we're absolutely just getting started. You know, I remember, for example, that one of the things with the name suggestion is that everyone you know, when it comes to domain suggestion and domain search, although they are very similar, they are conceptually very different on how you get there, because one thing is applying ways to search into a predetermined database, for example, you know, an inventory, for example, example, right, uh, it could be an aftermarket inventory. And another thing is actually telling the system you have to create new domain names from scratch. That obviously, in that case, is not searching, but it's coming up with new strings that then you have to filter and make sure they're still available. And back in the day, even if the zone file contained maybe 10 million domain names or something like that, it was obviously much smaller than it is today. One of the biggest challenges is okay, of all the strings that I have generated, that the system have generated, with all the calculations and the semantics and all of that. Okay, how do I actually make to check that these suggestions are still available, for example, checking them against the zone file, without taking 25 minutes, because obviously these are all things that need to be.

Speaker 2: 29:57

I remember that we were aiming at replying in really few milliseconds, so the challenges were okay. First, how do we revolutionize the way that actually people is showing up alternatives to customers? So we had to get into semantics, we had to get into really trying to understand what the domain name is about and trying to gather the most relevant keywords, third terms, related terms that actually were relevant to what the customer was looking at. And how do we teach the system how to assemble them together? Because you see, most of the times you think about domain name as a string, but the reality is that actually a domain name can contain multiple keywords and obviously it's how you put these, how you assemble these keywords together, that makes a good domain name and a bad domain name. And obviously we say, okay, if we have to get into this crazy plan, you know we either go big or go home. So we had to really rethink it from scratch.

Speaker 1: 31:12

So how do you, how do you teach? You know you talk about machine learning and things like that, but like, how would you? And obviously I was at before this, before this podcast here I was looking into what Google uses and I watched a video on it. Google actually has a video that explains how their search works. Now, obviously they're not giving away anything of any substance, but it's interesting the key points that they show. But it still blows my mind that if, for example, I search and I'm like a florist, so if I search flowers, now flowers you're going to look at and you're going to say, ok, and all these random GTLDs there's probably the word flowers is available for registration, however, not that there's anything wrong with the extension but if flowershiphop is available, it's probably not a great one for that person, you know. It probably isn't a great fit If it was music different story story, you know.

Speaker 1: 32:06

So you got to weed those out, no pun intended no, no, but then but then of course, you know the florist is thinking flowers, florist, tulips, roses, like the higher converting words that you could put into a brand of a, like you call a company, red tulip, you know, or, or pink roses, you know, or something, or you know. You could be punny like we. We sold the name. Um, remember, obviously the movie forest gump. Yeah, okay, frank, we sold the domain at uniregistrated. I'll never forget it's called florist gump, right, it's always like a funny name and it's always stuck with me as a good brand that's actually.

Speaker 2: 32:40

That's actually a nice word.

Speaker 1: 32:41

I think it's a good brand right, and I still remember it to this day from like 10 years ago. But what I'm saying, though, is that how are you, with all the GTLDs out there, with all the CCTLDs out there, with com and the availabilities of info and everything else, how are you taking somebody and providing actually relevant results that aren't just typing flowers? Just give them anything with a flower in it, and it's trash? That's what I see on certain. If I built my own brokerage website with search, it would just be totally keyword and you type in flower and anything with the word flower and you would get everything that gets flower and it sucks.

Speaker 2: 33:22

How do you guys do that? So I remember it was the ICANN meeting in Beijing. It was 2013. What year was?

Speaker 1: 33:30

that 2013.

Speaker 2: 33:32

So it was really when new GTLDs were really popping into existence. That I actually said to someone. I said you know what. To someone I said you know what? I think that there's going to be a new girl that is going to rule the house here talking about the domain name industry. And that girl is relevancy Because, you see, with the inflation of availability, because obviously now you have a lot of TLDs and it's a great thing that people have now choices, because with onlycom at some point the domain names were starting to get a little bigger, a little big.

Speaker 2: 34:12

At that point it's all about the relevance. Relevance, the way that we do it. It's first of all personalizing at a registrar level, because no two registrars are alike, so every registrar has its own set of parameters, weights, targets of what are the most relevant. And then it's all about how you merge the term with the TLD. So by knowing at a semantic level if flowers goes better with shop rather than I don't know plumbing again, nothing wrong with plumbing, absolutely yeah. The thing is that at that point it's important to know how you put them together, because when a new gTLD brings value to the table, that's actually how you're contributing to the Internet, to the registry, to the registrar into the end, to the registrar and to the end user, because now it's just not yet another string, but that string is actually bringing value to the message that I wanna convey, whether I sell flowers, I'm a plumber, I'm an astrophysicist or I just have a blog about my travels. So it's in the moment that you take into account the semantic part, the meaning, what that TLDs bring into the table, that actually you can try to generate more relevant suggestion.

Speaker 2: 35:51

Mostly, we use semantics as much as possible. As much as possible. Then it's understanding and having this self-improving algorithm that actually, based on usage, is gonna understand. To make you an example, maybe dot photo. It's actually much more relevant from a category of the people let's say, for example, photographer, but sorry, a photographer more relevant from a category of the people.

Speaker 2: 36:21

Let's say, for example, photographer rather than camera. That might be always talking about photography, but more centered towards, for example, talking more about cameras. So you know like having these type of things and obviously you know like having these type of things and obviously you know what's interesting about this is the fact that when you think it on an abstract level, it sounds easy. The problem is this doing it with a domain name that can be barely two keywords when you have absolutely no context in a vacuum, is actually much harder than it seems. Or let me put it this way it's an imperfect science, meaning that, at least so far, even us can provide results that are not perfect, but because, again, since we're dealing with language, it's really hard to reach perfection.

Speaker 1: 37:27

Yeah, so now let's get into the weeds of it, though. Okay.

Speaker 2: 37:32

Right, so it's referencing the florist that we were talking about before yes, right back, right.

Speaker 1: 37:38

So when you get into search and the search results, you're providing right and someone comes in and they're searching, they search bostonplumbercom and that name is already registered, right, so they can't be had. Now registrars have the option to say click here for the who is this domain isn't available. They always say is this your domain name? Click here for the who is this domain isn't available. They always say is this your domain name? Transfer it in. Or the service we provide.

Speaker 1: 38:03

We ask if they want to hire, like sawcom brokerage or another brokerage, or pay for a buy service to do that, or, you know, try these other options. So then they put out, like you know, results from CETO, mls or Afternic, dls or whatever that are com names. Now, with that, you're pulling from those and putting those results in there right Based on. Are you looking at just the keywords and making a decision, or are you kind of also getting their location? Are you getting time of day? Are you getting other things like that that are important to help you decide, or is that not as important in your business?

Speaker 2: 38:40

So considering that I cannot get too much into the details, but one thing that I can tell you, though, is absolutely the parameters, and there are additional parameters geolocation, actually is one of them help to further customize, because, at the end of the day, what you really want to try to do as a registrar is to get to showing to the end user something that is relevant to him. So Boston flowers is not available, or flowers of flowers of Boston is not available at flowersboston is not available. At that point you gotta ask yourself, okay, what's out there, you know, in terms of what I can either generate or search in the aftermarket, that has to be in the kind of in the limit of what is close to that meaning. So something that, if I was a florist in Boston, what is close to that meaning? So something that if I was a florist in Boston, what would I use?

Speaker 2: 39:45

Right, and that entails analyzing the keywords. So splitting the keywords up, splitting the domain names into keywords. That is the first step. And then saying, okay, if this keyword represents flowers, what are the concepts, what are the keywords that are closest to that? Try to connect them together and then, and obviously, connect them with variations, so saying, can I use this as an adjective, can I use this as a pronoun, sorry, as a noun? You know all of these techniques to create the wider list possible. And then saying okay, I have generated, let's say, 10,000 names what is actually available, and then you've got to filter that out.

Speaker 1: 40:33

Obviously because and this is all happening in how many milliseconds? And then sent to the registrar to be displayed to the user Less than 100.

Speaker 2: 40:42

I know, you see, that's why I tell you Today is actually given for granted because technology has advanced so much. But you know, in hindsight, looking back in 2004, we were really trying to get blood out of the beat, as we say in Italy, getting blood out of a rock. Because you know the technical challenges you know of, you understand, is this even fathomable? You know, back in the day we're really big where six Italian boys in an office not far from the Vatican competing versus American companies and even giants of the industry.

Speaker 1: 41:27

How did you get your funding kind of going after these things?

Speaker 2: 41:30

We didn't, we just built it. We just built it because Max and I used to have a business that was providing which. By the way, this actually is an interesting story that our original name was not Domainsbot. Domainsbot was actually our biggest competitor in 2001. Because back in the day, max and I had a business called the Local who Is which was providing expiring domain names. We built a set of services around the concept of expiring domain names, so people can snap them out.

Speaker 2: 42:02

And in 2001,. We were competing with Domainsbot for the market and Domainsbot was originally created by a guy in Canada, but he was by himself and he was in college, max and I were in uni and but, but it was the two of us plus we actually got a programmer to help us out. So we started competing, competing, competing, and then in 2002, I um, uh, I get sick. In 2000, in June of 2002, I actually get diagnosed with cancer and I got shipped to the US for treatment and in July of 2002, this is actually a very funny story, so the situation was actually not looking great, which I've known since I was five and I practically grew up in his house. And he says, dude, look, the picture is not looking great.

Speaker 2: 43:06

I was in New York and Max says, okay, I'm coming over, and 48 hours later Max was in New York. And again, you know, it's really good and it's really easy when you think today's world, you know, and I'm 40. But Max was 20 and it was in 2002. You know, it was a different. It was a lot of money, it was a lot of money and it wasn't even that easy. It's not something that you could say oh yeah, absolutely, I'm just going to.

Speaker 1: 43:40

I had to get a visa.

Speaker 2: 43:42

No, thank God, Italians never needed a visa for the US. But again it was a different world.

Speaker 1: 43:50

But it goes to show you, though, what a good friend he is, or was to come. It doesn't even matter if the flight was free, it doesn't matter, it's just the fact that he's willing to put his life aside and come visit his friend and make him feel better.

Speaker 2: 44:02

Look, I'm only child but one thing that I can tell you is that, throughout my youth, if I can tell you what is the closest thing that I have to a brother, it's actually Max, because, again, I literally grew up in his house. Actually, our first office back in 2002 was actually Max's basement, max's house basement. So the thing is that Max shows up and while I was actually sick, he was talking to the guy that created the main spot because, as I said, he was in college, he was by himself, he was really hard for him, you know, for him to to keep things running by being in college. So he actually kind of gave us, gave us the main spot. So I was, I was in a hospital bed, highly medicated, and and Max just storms in into a room one afternoon and says, dude, sign this.

Speaker 2: 45:02

And I was like dude, I was like practically more asleep than anything. He says, dude, what is this? And I was like, no, no, we're just getting the main spot. And I go what he said yeah, yeah, sign here. And then, like a few minutes later, I kind of fall asleep because, as I said, I was in immense pain.

Speaker 1: 45:19

It was like an angel flying in and flying out.

Speaker 2: 45:22

You are not far from the truth. So when I got better and I go back home, we merged the two things together. We kept with the domain name with the domain name expiring list business. We kept going with the domain name expiring list business. We kept going To be honest with you. On a more personal note, it was really, you know, domainsbot in a way kind of saved my life for a reason. I came back in November of 2002 in Rome after my surgery that I had in New York six cycles of chemo. I just had to do some kind of rinsing chemo when I was in Rome, but it was much lighter.

Speaker 2: 46:04

And when I came back, when I arrived in Rome, I felt that I was actually flying you know 24, 30 centimeters from the ground, because obviously you know, I got my life back right and I was so happy I was happy to be home, to be with my friends, and all of that.

Speaker 2: 46:27

Now, oddly enough, this was November 2002. March 2003, I am kind of trying to get back to my life. You know, obviously, after chemo and all of this, and I get into a huge existential crisis. And I remember that one day I was with Max and I told him, you know what the problem is, that I feel that I got back this device that is full of buttons, but no one gave me the instruction manual and that device is my life.

Speaker 2: 47:02

For almost a year I was so focused, like my life purpose was literally saving my own ass, that now that I did, I didn't know what to do with it or how to get to that max, in his, in his infinite wisdom, turns around and says dude, you know, we have domains, but you can focus on it and and I did any kind of how how this whole thing happened. So max and I founded the new domains, bought the domain suggestion and all of this with the money that we were making and we were saving from the other business that we kept for a while we had expired domain name, expired domains for dot com for a while. Uh, because obviously at that point we kind of had to do the switcheroo of the, of the, of the of the different, uh, you know, brands and businesses and yeah, and that's kind of how the whole thing started and it was.

Speaker 1: 48:03

So where's Max now?

Speaker 2: 48:05

So Max is a doctor, max is an author and a laryngologist. He lives in Rome, married a beautiful daughter. He's a little older than mine and he's still partially involved at the main spot. But then you know, 2000, put it, 2002, 2003, you know, life gave me another brother because, again, my parents were kind of lazy or, as I always joke, you do not repeat the masterpiece or they learned their lesson or they learn their lesson. I would say that is more the second in my case. But the thing is that then life gave me my second brother, which is Emiliano.

Speaker 2: 48:52

You know, emiliano arrived when we were just starting with the domain suggestion thing, when we were just starting with the domain suggestion thing, and he has been, you know, he has been the other half of the sky, let's say, for Domainsbot, and you know, he has obviously become a brother to me. And you know, have we have this very odd dynamic, like we used to be really confrontational and to have a very kind of wouldn't say bad, because it's never been bad, but very strong. You know, come from at a confrontation level of relationship when we both living in Rome and we were both working in the same office and we just realized that the best thing for us was just to have an ocean apart from each other, because since we he lives in Turkey and I live in Colombia we have been working like freaking clockwork, you know, like we have been really. We have been really. We have been really, you know, really being two sides of the same coin and the good thing is that we complete each other quite well, you know.

Speaker 2: 50:08

So you're very opposite people, exactly You're saying but with the fact that we have very aligned goals and with the fact that we accept our weaknesses. You know, like, for example, one of the smartest human beings that I have ever encountered in my life, obviously, obviously after you, jeff uh is our cto, javier. He's from Argentina. He's currently living in Madrid. He's by far one of the smartest people I've ever encountered in my life. That guy sees things and he has the analytical capability that I'm pretty sure that not even I will ever live and come close to Believe me. It's crazy. I cannot state enough how much I admire that guy. He's very systematical, he's very methodical, as a good cto has to be right.

Speaker 2: 51:09

And and during that conversation where, where, uh, you know, emiliano said uh, uh, dan is a man of action, I remember that javier was saying okay, but this, we need to document it. And I remember that Emiliano stopped him and said you know what? I'm not going to even ask Daniel to write it down. I'm not going to miss Daniel. Besides, I suck at writing in every language I speak. As you can see, I'm a little bit better at talking just because I do it a lot, because I really talk a lot. But rather than that, the thing is that we now got to the point that we understand each other's weaknesses and we said, okay, I'm going to give you strength in that specific weaknesses because I am the other side of the coin, and that creates a bond that really transcends. You know, this is my area of expertise.

Speaker 2: 52:03

It's really at a much deeper level you know, it takes a lot for people like yourself and me to realize and then admit your weaknesses and then find somebody else that also feels the same way and can admit their my weaknesses, and for Emiliano to slap them in my face as hard as he could, and for me to actually take his weaknesses and just shove them in his face, but with always this honesty. You can say a lot of things about Emiliano Pasqualetti and just shove them in his face, but with always this honesty. You know, you can say a lot of things about Emiliano Pasqualetti and most of those things might be true, but if there's one thing that you can say about him is that if he tells you something is because that's what he really thinks. He says things as they are and, believe me, that's really important.

Speaker 1: 53:18

Is that an Italian thing? Because I think I have that. I do that too, and sometimes it's not always the best thing to do here's.

Speaker 2: 53:24

The thing is that you know.

Speaker 2: 53:26

I always joke, especially because Colombians tend to be exaggeratedly polite, and in fact I always joke with people here saying if Colombians were just a little bit rude, the GDP of this country would grow by 8% overnight. But the funny thing is that you need to do it to the person that you know is willing to accept it. To cut the crap. It takes two. It's not just you that cut the crap. It needs to be two Like I need you to be truthful and I need to listen like carefully. That's how you make it, that's how you make it work. Yeah, and again I that that we have this up, because sometimes when I get into this type of discussions like this is like damn it am.

Speaker 1: 54:25

I talking about my business partner of my wife, but uh uh well, you, you share sometimes the same amount of time and you travel just as much with them.

Speaker 2: 54:33

Here's the funny thing, with problems and others. I have known emiliano for longer than I've known my wife.

Speaker 1: 54:40

I've known my wife for 11 years and I've known Emiliano for 21.

Speaker 2: 54:44

So this kind of tells you Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 54:47

This kind of tells you. And also one important thing actually at a human level is that when you have 20 years of sharing the path of your life with someone you have been through so much, we have seen each other at the strongest and at the weakest. In the major, emiliano saw me borderline dying on a hospital bed, and I've seen Emiliano in his weakest moments in his life, even if it's not even professionally. That that actually creates a channel of communication, of truth and of trust that nowadays he can even call me names as much as he wants, me names as much as he wants, and I know what he means and I do the same with him. You know and I do the same with him, and that actually is what make a business relationship last for 20 years and also the fact that there's an ocean between us, so we kind of limited physical interaction to a minimum.

Speaker 1: 55:58

So let's talk a little bit more about search.

Speaker 2: 56:01

Yes, sorry, I opened these very personal.

Speaker 1: 56:03

No, I love it. I'll tell you something. I'll tell you a very abridged version of our business or my business was is that I started my business, and I started my business with a person named Amanda Waltz, and Amanda is another domain broker and she is one of the best domain brokers in the business and we work together. And I think we had different aspirations of where we wanted to take the business and what we wanted, and different goals and unfortunately, you guys have stuck together but we parted ways two summers ago and after that happened, months later, I started talking to the CEO of a name silo, called Kristaps Ronca and they had a sales platform, that name lot that I've had my eye on. It's kind of like I wanted to build this into more of like a marketplace and a brokerage and self brokerage and all these things. And one of the areas I was totally struggling with is is development, because I'm more of the business development guy, I'm the salesperson, I'm the one with the ideas.

Speaker 1: 57:08

If I turn my screen I've got. It's actually hilarious. I'll actually show you this. I hope I don't knock it over. I've got a list of. I threw away my whiteboard and then, right after I threw away my whiteboard Uh-huh. And then, right after I threw away my whiteboard, I needed it again. And my sons have a target an ax.

Speaker 2: 57:26

I love it.

Speaker 1: 57:28

But I put a piece of cardboard and I write my ideas there and it fell down and it scared the shit out of me earlier, but anyways. But he brings in our relationship where you know more of a man I'd be more the A personality sales go get them. You know they bought, you know we're partners in Sawcom and doing this and he brought the side of the business, of technological side of the business, and him and his personality is exactly what you said is it's filling in. What I'm definitely not.

Speaker 1: 58:03

And one of the biggest problems that I've had in business and I think it's taken me a long time to figure this one out is when I would talk to a developer I would explain the problem I'm having. I would tell him what I want, or her what I want out of it, and then when they give it to me, a lot of the times what it is isn't what I wanted and then I get mad and frustrated. But in the end, if you actually pick apart what occurred, the reason why it isn't the way I want it is it's because the guy looking in the mirror, because I didn't do a good enough job explaining it and covering every single detail to make sure that that is exactly what I wanted, and what they do is they do what you told them to do and they don't think of the details.

Speaker 1: 58:54

They did it to the dot, but I'm not good at mapping that out, I'm not good at doing every little thing, so I need a very good project manager and I need someone like him to question me and ask those details that I don't. My brain just doesn't think that way. I look more like if we do this, then we can get here.

Speaker 2: 59:13

And we can hear and hear. It's to have the vision, it's to have the vision yes, and Get it there.

Speaker 1: 59:20

He's brought that into this business and things have been going great as well, not to say that it wouldn't be going as well if Amanda was still around. It's just kind of a different partner. I have nothing bad to say about it.

Speaker 2: 59:35

What did you say? It's a different endeavor, it's a different type of project in front of you Now you're having a different approach, totally. But you see, you said something really interesting, because now you started having that honesty to look at yourself and to say this is where I'm lacking, that honesty to look at yourself and to say this is where I'm lacking. Then that direct channel of communication can be opened.

Speaker 1: 1:00:07

And that's actually how things evolve, it's true, and you got to realize that I can't be like Hercules on one side of the boat with an oar and then everybody else is on the other and I'm doing everything, and then there's a bunch of little ones here Like you need to delegate, you need to trust in people to do a good job, you need to, you know, give them those opportunities. And then you also need you just need people to talk to and bring you back down to earth and tell you your ideas are stupid, sometimes as well you know, or that's not doable.

Speaker 1: 1:00:38

Your ideas are stupid, sometimes as well, you know. Or that's not doable.

Speaker 2: 1:00:40

You know long, long time ago Uh, and again I'm talking 20, even before Domainspot times uh, because Max and I started fiddling with, uh, with the internet and creating websites and try to, you know, put put online ideas, since we were really 16 or something. And, um, and we had this method. Uh, that was this method. That was really interesting. We would just get into a room and if I had an idea, you know, and I explain it Max would spend two hours just trying to poke brutally as many holes as possible in my idea, and I would do the same with his, if it survived it may be worth exploring.

Speaker 1: 1:01:24

Ah, that's good. It would be like a trial by fire.

Speaker 2: 1:01:27

in a way, Like you know, I'm just going to try to throw everything I can to just destroy your idea. If it's still standing, it has some legs.

Speaker 1: 1:01:41

Yeah, when I manage the sales team of 50 salespeople and one of them would come to me and say you know, I think we should buy this product right and we would use this technology to do this, and I'd be like, okay, so what I would do is I would write it down in my little notebook and I would say, well, we'll look into it, and I wouldn't say a word back to that salesperson on purpose and I would wait, and a lot of the times they never came back again and asked again, and that, to me, tells you that it isn't as mission and critical as they think. It was just important that day to have it. But if other sales people start coming over and saying, hey, I was working with john and he's using this widget, he showed me this widget, I really want it then all of a sudden it's time to maybe have a demo, maybe it's time to start looking into pricing, maybe it's time to start seeing how they're using it, you know, and then you start implementing it or you don't. You know you get to that point as well, absolutely so, yeah. So I have a question for you. Yes, okay.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

So you are, I'm guessing that, on a daily basis, your search algorithm that people are using on registrars and hosting companies in places like that is probably used millions of times a day. Is that fair? Yes, fair to say yes Millions of searches of times a day. Is that fair? Yes, fair to say yes Millions of searches.

Speaker 1: 1:03:01

Okay, do you think if you took the daily search volume and maybe you had it trailing the, let's say, the S&P 500 or the stock market or the global economy based on location, do you think that it would possibly follow stocks, but delayed? I just feel so. From my point of view, and the way I'm looking at the stock market and the way things are going right now in the United States is we've just broken the all-time high for the size of the market, but there are a handful of stocks that are really performing exponentially well, making it look a lot better than really what it is right now, because a lot of other stocks are flat yeah which is drag, which is pulling up everything else right, and other stocks that are similar to that company are also getting, you know, are going up, and then, just in general I don't have all the specifics but, like you know, we don't have the explosiveness of registrations.

Speaker 1: 1:03:59

I'm an investor in link and we're relatively flat for new registrations this year. Despite doing a lot of partnerships and going out there and doing a lot of biz dev and hitting the streets. It's relatively flat. It's not the same growth we were getting before. What does that tell me? If registrars aren't getting a lot of new registrations or losing registrations, then the searches must be less than they were two years ago, where actually, you know, as an economy, I would think your search volume would be a metric that people should potentially be looking at and if pegged in a certain way, you'd probably be surprised as to what you'd see. Have you ever thought about that?

Speaker 2: 1:04:50

So it could be, it could be eventually, but there are two important considerations to make there are two important considerations to make.

Speaker 2: 1:05:05

The first one is that, even if we wanted to, we cannot, let's say, simply because one of the characteristics of our service is that our customer searches are our customers. And this is a very important part, because the reason why we have a paid service that we provide to our customers is because we cannot touch the data. And, believe me, across the years, there has been a lot of people saying hey, you know, is there a way that we can get a hold of X registrars logs or something like?

Speaker 1: 1:05:40

that Well, I wouldn't say. I'm not saying X registrars, no, but even in aggregate, even in aggregate. Even in aggregate. You don't want to know.

Speaker 2: 1:05:47

But, with that said, there is a, because there are a bunch of other registrars and especially the, let's say, the resellers that use kind of the self-service product you know, can provide us with some data. We did an interesting analysis, is actually in our blog, is actually on Domainsbot blog. It was a massive analytics work done by Emiliano In seeing how the behavior, especially post-pandemic, has changed over time, has changed during the pandemic and post-pandemic. Obviously, we're coming out of the pandemic, and data had a massive impact.

Speaker 2: 1:06:36

Back in those days, when we were all enclosed in our houses, we were registering and searching for domain names like nobody's business. Today, obviously, the thing has changed, right, and we didn't even look at the United States by itself. We looked worldwide, and obviously there are places that have, right now, an economic outlook and an economic situation that is even more different from the one in the US. With that said, though, I think it's interesting to look at it because it could give you some indication of how active people is online and nowadays, how active people is online, and nowadays, how active people is online could be an indication on how active is people in general, and what I mean by active, not how much they run. You know how active their economic you know activities are, and this is definitely an interesting part. However, I would say that more that for the big companies, it would give you a great outlook on how the small businesses outlook is looking, because who searches for a domain name, main name?

Speaker 2: 1:07:54

If I'm an investor and I'm trying, for example, to bet on, uh, you know, new keywords or new terms or new technologies or things like that, okay, yeah, that's definitely a thing, but I would look at it maybe from another angle, which is, uh, how much people is starting a you know a little shop around the block? What?

Speaker 1: 1:08:17

that's what I'm trying to say is that the US is built on small business. You know, people from the outside looking in think it's Microsoft and Amazon, but the reality is you drive through the United States it's all small business. You drive on the roads it's all small businesses driving around, true, true? Well, in that case, actually?

Speaker 2: 1:08:35

yes, it definitely could. It definitely could be an indicator. But if actually you want that answer, I would say that I wouldn't even look directly just at the search volume, but I would use something like our data to actually say what's happening. In the last year, how many restaurants have popped into existence, where are they based, what are the things that they're selling, how many florists, how many dentists, how many you know like. Maybe not directly, looking only from the domain search side, but I would actually use the direct metrics which, by the way, our data has, because it's only there, but it's to see how many of these businesses are popping into existence and even how many of them are dying out, to see actually how the whole economic activity is expanding or not.

Speaker 1: 1:09:31

But then you look at companies like Linktree. That added millions of users in a couple of years. That added millions of users in a couple of years and if they were a registrar, that pulled that off to 20 million registrations in two years.

Speaker 2: 1:09:43

It would be pretty big.

Speaker 1: 1:09:46

They would be queuing the band. The moment that registrar anyone from that registrar walked into ICANN, the red carpet would come out and registrar the other registrars would be like surrounding them, asking for autographs, because that would be the greatest business person ever to walk through. I can't be able to grow at that speed, Right, but they really did it. They really did that. That's almost like a registrar, but it also shows that there could be more of like a cultural change where people aren't as worried about the domain name and they're just getting their link in bio and they're putting it on their Instagram or their Facebook business and they're saying, okay, that works too, and I don't have to go with the web builder and all the bullshit that comes with it, and small businesses might be going in that direction as well.

Speaker 2: 1:10:26

You see, there's an important part. There's an important part actually, I have discussed this topic with a bunch of people in the industry incidentally, even the guys at link, a bunch of people in the industry, incidentally, even the guys at link about the fact that there is one important piece of knowledge, let's say, that has to be maybe shared and made understood better by the wider industry sorry, by the wider market which is the fact that, with LinkedIn bio, with your Instagram, with your Facebook page, you are giving control of your web presence to someone else.

Speaker 1: 1:11:12

Oh, totally.

Speaker 2: 1:11:12

And this is an important part. You know there was an analysis I did a long time ago about streamers, for example. Right Now, the streamer community depends on you know the web presence. You know if I'm a streamer, either it's about video games or whatever it is. You know you have, you need to have control of the place where your audience come in. If your audience only knows you from twitch slash Panda, or YouTube slash panda or facebook slash panda, nothing wrong with it. Or even link three dot slash panda, nothing wrong with it. But just bear in mind you are anyway at the mercy of them with your domain name and with your web presence, even if you have to go through your web building and let's be honest, building a website these days is not same thing as I used to do in 1995 when I got no to to code in html by yourself no way but

Speaker 2: 1:12:21

even in that, even in that, it at least gives you control. And I have seen countless streamers, you know, or youtubers, make a wrong move and just get erased from existence. And the thing is that obviously you know, you might argue, you might argue you know what it's worth the risk, because I don't want to have the hassle to register a domain name or to renew it once a year. But let's be honest if you're twitching business or streaming business or your activity online is going good, it's really a relatively small price to pay.

Speaker 1: 1:13:00

Yeah Well, I know that Joe Rogan was on all YouTube and he got a warning because they were saying that he was talking about fake news when he was talking about the vaccinations and things like that. So he started to get worried that he was going to get his channel shut down. And then Spotify picked him up and he still puts his episodes on YouTube, but not the full. He gives you shorts, but he's left there and he has more control. But you know, he's a juggernaut and that's a whole different animal.

Speaker 2: 1:13:28

You're talking about, you know, maybe one of the most important podcasts right now, even in the world, that he has a huge audience. I'm not familiar with his numbers, but I know for a fact that he's really big, so obviously in his case it's different, meaning that he already by himself has the power to then say okay, I'm just going to move here and move there, and you know he can even stay on Spotify and still be Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2: 1:14:02

But the reality is that the moment that you have and the moment that you are known by, for example, your web presence, which could be even a domain name linked to a link, three to a link you know, this is my Instagram, this is my thing, but you have to have the power, the day that you switch to YouTube pages, to change it and go to your new YouTube page, for example.

Speaker 2: 1:14:26

This already gives you much more control. You know, in the end it really goes back down to the, to the, to the very old, the metaphor or of what the domain name industry is. You are buying it. Do you remember in the good old days, when we were all younger, that we used to say that a domain name is a piece of real estate in the internet?

Speaker 1: 1:14:53

I still do Exactly.

Speaker 2: 1:14:54

The thing is that when you are actually just you know a guest at someone's house, obviously it's different than actually saying, okay, I own my plot of land. It might be barren, it might have a beautiful house, a beautiful website on it, but it's my land. So at least I have more control If I'm a guest at someone's house. You know, in Italy I don't know if in the US it's the same, but we have this say that a guest is like fish After three days it starts smelling bad.

Speaker 2: 1:15:32

So the thing is? The thing is that I would say that that is one of the most important arguments that you would have, but again, it's a problem of education, of education, of letting people understand that. And when it comes to new GTLDs I think I used to use this metaphor a lot when I'm talking with registries is that right now and for some maybe still the case there is almost this veil of transparency? Right, new GTLDs now, but it took 10 years for new GTLDs to be just part of everyone's daily life, right?

Speaker 1: 1:16:13

Yeah, I don't know why they call them new anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:16:17

Well, in technology terms, you know, 10 years might sound like an eternity.

Speaker 2: 1:16:23

But the reality is this is that, since you are touching one of the things that has touched society the most in the maybe last thousand years, which is the internet, obviously, for as fast as technology goes, you have to give it time to people for that to sink in. Because, remember, the internet is, you know, is, yeah, nvidia Link 3, like this super technological. It's the edge of technology is Facebook. But the internet is also a website of a pharmacy that is in a street corner, in a tiny house in North Dakota, or is in, you know, in a tiny Colombian town.

Speaker 1: 1:17:06

Or six Italians in Rome building a business. You see, that's the thing.

Speaker 2: 1:17:11

That's the thing, yeah building a business. You see, that's the thing. That's the thing, yeah. So the problem is that if it's true one world, one internet if it's also true that what it stands, what, what it's work, what, what it's part of everyday life for nvidia or for microsoft or for domainsbot or subcom, has to be the same for the pharmacist in North Dakota. And that takes time. And again, I'm just making the example of North Dakota as a remote location.

Speaker 2: 1:17:41

But this is the thing you know, being Italian, maybe for me I have the perception that North Dakota is very remote. But that's the point is that you know is that it's a process that takes time and maybe people, even in the domain name industry, really underestimated how long it was going to take. They really did, because a lot of people back at that Beijing ICANN meeting it was at the beginning of the new GTLD era people were convinced okay, I'm getting out with my new brand new extension, I'm going to make a trillion registration in the first six months.

Speaker 1: 1:18:17

Good luck with that we thought at Uniregistry when like link was launched and Frank invested in 20 other GTLDs he had, that the numbers were going to be explosive and they grew. But they grew not to the amount that he felt was a success, but they grew organically like a normal business and they've continued to grow that way. A lot of them I mean some of them had some very good promos, like XYZ did the penny a name and then a lot of those names have renewed and they have really done a wonderful job with that extension. But I think the majority of them have grown at a nice steady rip.

Speaker 1: 1:18:57

You know doing what companies do when they have campaigns and opportunities at work but then the gold vein burns out and they're going to find a new one and they might dip and then get into other things and other opportunities come along. But you know, I think if you asked the total number of GTLDs registrations 10 years in, I think even those that had the more conservative numbers other than the haters but those that had the more conservative numbers would still have been pretty high from what people were expecting. But the demand wasn't there. It's going to be interesting with the new round three years from now or two and a half years, really like three years from now, where there could be hundreds of new applications that come in and new extensions, and that's going to make your job a little harder of adding more options.

Speaker 2: 1:19:44

It's going to make it wider I wouldn't say harder, I would actually say wider like now. It's going to be maybe easier for us, for example on the name suggestion side, to serve the public, because now there's going to be either even more, much more availability and there's going to be the possibility and at least I pray to god actually that the new gtld round is going to have very relevant strings. That is not just going to be like whatever I come up with the morning in the morning and I just make a tld out of it, but if the strings are relevant it's going to be easier. There's going to be more availability and more relevancy because, again to me, my, my words and paging still stand true relevance, butlevance.

Speaker 1: 1:20:32

Yes, you're absolutely right, but the thing is is that every store you go into only has so much shelf space, and if it's a lot of bad extensions as you can see in the list of GTLDs now that are listed publicly for sale aren't getting the registrations because they're either not relevant, they're too long, the quality isn't there whatever it is, or there's no commercial demand for it, and so the registrars aren't going to have you put results of some crappy extension in there just because that name's available, because it's just not going to convert and your algorithm is going to learn from that.

Speaker 2: 1:21:11

It's a duck pretty quick, right it's going to learn from that that it's a dump pretty quick, right, it's gonna adapt, it's gonna learn and it's gonna adapt to see if the people is more receptive to this tlt, there is no logical reason for which we shouldn't we shouldn't show it. Obviously, in the moment, the tlt is relevant to the, to the customer. So, yeah, it's my daughter that is walking away. They're going, they're going piano lessons.

Speaker 1: 1:21:38

Oh, that's cute, that's cute. So I'm going to ask you some questions here, some more questions. I got a bunch of them. Sure, these are the. These are going to be. These are going to be short answers for you.

Speaker 2: 1:21:47

Okay, all right right, remember, if there's one gift that god give didn't give me, it's actually synthesis, but I'm gonna try to do my, to do my best try your best.

Speaker 1: 1:21:56

Try your best, okay. All right, you've mentioned you're drinking white wine, but are you more of a red wine or a white wine kind of guy?

Speaker 2: 1:22:04

honestly white, or white.

Speaker 1: 1:22:07

Okay, so then my next question was would you you like South American wine or Italian wine more?

Speaker 2: 1:22:13

Do you really need?

Speaker 1: 1:22:13

to ask Well, if it's white, it's probably the Italian anyway, right?

Speaker 2: 1:22:20

No, in general, I'm a huge fan of Italian whites.

Speaker 1: 1:22:24

Italian whites. That's your favorite. Okay, what's your favorite?

Speaker 2: 1:22:27

grape would say that there was. One of the best white wines I've ever had was actually something that it's kind of weird because it was called the Pinot Giallo, yellow Pinot. You are very used to Pinot Noir, so the black one.

Speaker 1: 1:22:49

Yes, pinot Grigio as well.

Speaker 2: 1:22:51

Exactly, pinot Giallo was one of the best I had it very, very, very few times, and I'm a huge fan of the. How do you spell it? How do you spell it? Giallo g-i-a-l-l-o, which means yellow in italian, and um and um. Tune it to my two, let's say, favorite wines are from the farthest northern part of Italy, which is right at border with Austria, which are the Müller Turgau and the Gerwustraminer.

Speaker 1: 1:23:26

I'm surprised you make good wine from there, because it's cold, you know, in the winter that's actually what makes them slightly sweeter and much more aromatic, like they don't okay they don't pack the same punch that, for example yeah a red from Tuscany would do with uh, uh, you know yeah pack.

Speaker 2: 1:23:43

They're much lighter okay, all right.

Speaker 1: 1:23:46

Next question have you ever had chef boyardee? Sorry have you ever had chef boyardee? It's American spaghetti in a can.

Speaker 2: 1:23:57

I am not entirely sure it is possible, although I'm afraid that if I did, that would make my Italian citizen in jeopardy.

Speaker 1: 1:24:07

I think you would have loved it.

Speaker 2: 1:24:08

No, I'm pretty sure that it's great. It's just that you know.

Speaker 1: 1:24:11

Again, I have an italian passport to defend have you ever had domino's pizza or papa john's or any or sparrow?

Speaker 2: 1:24:24

so I had actually a slice of um what's the other famous, uh, american pizza, pizza hut I had it. I had it once in in the czech republic, in prague, and once in beijing, but in both cases it was in beijing.

Speaker 1: 1:24:42

It was out of necessity it was just you're starving and you needed something to eat.

Speaker 2: 1:24:47

Yeah, and we were really running out of options. I was with francesco ceteraro. He used to be at aphelios for a very long time and um the thing is that he's the most the foodiest of the foodies that I've ever met in my life it's like if it's not michelin star, I'm not eating. And he was so desperate in beijing that he says dude, I even know where mcdonald's in beijing are so he was eating chinese sparrow yeah, something like that, yeah like that.

Speaker 1: 1:25:13

Yeah, that's the lowest of the low right there.

Speaker 2: 1:25:15

Yeah, that's kind of how bad it can get.

Speaker 1: 1:25:18

All right. Last question what do you think about if you came to my house and I was making pasta and I broke it in half when I put it in the pot? Yeah, the spaghetti. How would you feel about that? Would you be bothered?

Speaker 2: 1:25:30

More than bothered. Feel about that. Would you be bothered More than bothered? I would just politely try to explain to you why it's a bad idea. Because people think that that is just a quirk, but there's a reason for it.

Speaker 1: 1:25:42

Okay, lay it on me. What's the reason so?

Speaker 2: 1:25:44

every pasta has. Every shape of pasta is meant to have a sauce, and the reason why that pasta has a shape is because it works better with that sauce. The reason why spaghetti works so well, for example, with sauces like tomato sauce or carbonara or matriciana, all of those is because you're just giving it more surface to for the sauce to stick to. So the thing is that when you cut them in half, you are actually cutting in half your bite, your chew, when you roll them. Okay, so it's not that Italians get mad at it for like… You're just like why? No, there's just a reason. There's just a reason like the reason why in Italy you can find 500 shapes of different shapes of pasta.

Speaker 2: 1:26:36

It's not because we didn't have anything to do that afternoon that we decided to invent them. It's because every pasta is supposed to go with the sauce. You know the rigatoni. It's called the rigatoni because riga means a stripe and they have all those stripes in there. It's called the rigatoni because riga means a stripe and they have all those stripes in there. It's just to increase the surface area to actually have the sauce stick. But they have that shape so the bites of stuff can get into the tube. So when you eat it you actually have a bite of the three things together.

Speaker 1: 1:27:07

There we go. I like it Is that easy.

Speaker 2: 1:27:11

The most hated cut of pasta in Italy, or the least used, is actually the smooth rigatoni or penne. They don't have the stripes, they're just smooth with fish dishes, because obviously you want to, on a fish pasta dish, to actually have the pasta play kind of a little tuned down role, because since you're using a quality ingredient like fish, you want that one actually to shine as much as possible.

Speaker 1: 1:27:49

I got it. Yes, do you want? Yes, Everything has a reason, my friend.

Speaker 2: 1:27:53

Everything has a reason. Fusilli is my possible. I got it. Yes, do you want? Yes, Everything has a reason, my friend. Everything has a reason.

Speaker 1: 1:27:55

Fusilli is my favorite Fusilli. What kind of what is that for Fusilli, for example?

Speaker 2: 1:28:01

because the fusilli has an enormous surface area for its volume. Yes, an enormous pesto Fusilli al pesto With pesto you cannot go wrong, or even a tomato sauce. Even a tomato sauce. You are actually just giving the possibility to the sauce to shine because it attaches to it. You need to give it surface area to attach to when you have a sauce which is obviously very liquid.

Speaker 1: 1:28:32

And how's the Italian food in Colombia?

Speaker 2: 1:28:35

Actually, oddly enough, now you have access to much more things, for example, compared to 20 years ago, like there are restaurants even in my town. I don't live in the capital, I don't live in Bogota, I live in Pereira, which is kind of the capital of the coffee zone of the country, and it's a million people, like between 750.

Speaker 2: 1:28:51

It's a million people, like between 750, almost a million people, uh I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to have you bring me a pound of coffee next time absolutely absolutely oh man yeah and the thing is that, uh, here now you, we, we even have a couple of restaurants that are actually owned and operated by italians that move, and you can find Italian pasta, you can find Italian parmesan, you can find Italian olive oil, so you have access to the products. Now, you know, 20 years ago, I remember when I was a kid and my Colombian friends would ask me oh, can you cook us pasta? And it would turn like very, very bad is because I didn't have access to the ingredients. At the end of the day, italian cuisine, it's all about the ingredients. We don't cook, we ensemble, we craft, but something it's true. It's true, like you know.

Speaker 2: 1:29:45

Think about the fact that a pasta dish, actually it's traditionally made in the same time that it takes the pasta to cook, which is maybe 10 minutes. Carbonara can be assembled in 10 minutes. 11 if you're slow, but that's pretty much it.

Speaker 1: 1:30:06

It's not cooking, it's assembling. You just need to know how to do it. Yep, I got it. That's great. So we talked about search. We talked about your business intelligence tool.

Speaker 2: 1:30:17

And before we wrap this up, because you usually try to keep these for an hour, an hour and a half now, I told you that synthesis was not a gift for me.

Speaker 1: 1:30:20

I warned you a bit, but you were also worried that you wouldn't know what to talk about today. You were saying so come on.

Speaker 2: 1:30:26

Jeff, you got to understand something. In Italy we have a say it's better to keep your mouth shut and give people the doubt that you're an idiot, that opening and give them confirmation so oh yeah, and how do you do that in italian? What's that, what's the? What's the traditional way? And may you, may, you, may, you start zitti and lashar, something like that. I don't remember exactly the say, like there is a traditional way of saying it, but right now it's kind of I don't know.

Speaker 1: 1:30:58

I just lost it for a moment. So registrars can use you A current business can do it if they're doing for brand protection, cctlds and scanning the internet for matching domains to their business to see what ones are registered and what's on those names and threat scores for what's happening on those names, correct. And then, additionally, are there any other products that like a domainer, because there's a lot of domain investors that listen to us that might find value in what you have.

Speaker 2: 1:31:25

I would say that Pandalytics could be an interesting research tool. Actually, it is, in fact, a great research tool. Actually, it is, in fact, a great research tool even for domain investors. And the reason why I say this is because we search the entire internet, all domain names in existence. We crawl them, we analyze it, we take all this information, we structure it and we make it available. And every domainer has his own secret sauce, has his own way of looking at domain names to understand if this niche is working, if this other niche is working, to even place bets on the future, and understanding what is the situation today. It's definitely one important factor into that equation, if you are a domainer that you are, for example, specialized in domain names of a specific niche, understanding how many domain names there are there, how many websites real websites that are producing revenue about that industry are in there, where are they, what language do they speak, and all of this can actually allow you to say, okay, now I'm going to go and get these domain names to enrich my portfolio.

Speaker 1: 1:32:32

So if someone would dump, like you know, I think one of the things that a lot of domainers kind of fight with is obviously they're a lot of times are handcuffed by what's coming on the drop and a lot of people just buy expired names. So if they were going to take a list of expired names and they would use PandaLytics to find things like diamonds in the rough, like it's obvious when a one wordcom expires and it's easy to look at perfect two wordcoms if you're going to get those, but it's finding those that it's obscure and the majority of your colleagues, it's just going to go over their head and these guys buy it in the in the closeout section for 25 bucks or 50 bucks or a hundred bucks and then they can dump it for $5 within a year or two years.

Speaker 2: 1:33:15

And you think PandaLytics has the ability to uncover possibilities like that To uncover possibility to understand the sizes of markets, understand the sizes of niches, right. All these things can be easily understood with PandaLytics, and the main part is with the fact that at least you would know that what you're, what you're looking at, is really all domain names in existence for GTL.

Speaker 2: 1:33:45

these are it that they believe for cctl these, we are pioneers with our techniques to actually have the biggest coverage of cctl these possible. So, yeah, these are. These is, for example, on the domain investor side, for registrars, obviously, domain suggestion and understand and in our data, whatever analytics or insights or whatever service you want to look at, it is the fact of understand, is the fact of understanding what are my customers doing, what are they buying from the outside that I'm not even aware of? What are the things that I may be offering as a service, like it's part of my product offering and it's a perfect match for them and I just don't. I haven't connected the the dots by giving you the third party. From the outside perspective, you are able to look at this.

Speaker 2: 1:34:36

And for registries, obviously is understanding who is using my domain names, what are they doing, what are they talking about with these domain names and what is the information that I can get to position better my TLD. I have a couple of examples that are actually common knowledge Dot ME, when they started analyzing their TLD and they realized that their programmers and start-uppers were using their TLD, they actually got their strategy by looking really closely at their customer base and they decided okay, this is actually how I want to position it. And they have done brilliant things, organized conferences about new technologies, about start-ups, because it was their customer base telling. This is why we appreciate them. It's never a top bottom thing, like I decided that my tld is for this, you know yeah, well, the people decide.

Speaker 1: 1:35:44

In the end you can say whatever you want and then it's just what people are doing. And I think I think, from a registry standpoint, which a lot of people don't realize is that they do promos try to get as many registrations as they can. The problem is when you sell names at a penny or a dollar, two bucks or whatever on a big promo, the renewals aren't very high. So you're hoping the next year renews at 20 bucks or 15 bucks or whatever, and if people don't use the name, then your odds are very slim. They're probably going to renew it unless they make a mistake, and it just renews automatically, not being used in trouble. Yeah, so if you look at your so you could scanlink and you can say 80% of the string are businesses that are using it. You know, 15% are investors and 5% is unknown. So then when we look at our projections we can say, okay, these are probably not going to renew and this is what we're looking at next year for projections and revenue, for example with the registrar. What are those?

Speaker 2: 1:36:41

activities, those promotions, those packages or those messages that we can convey in order to stimulate at least part of that customer base, part of those domain names that are still inactive, they're still dormant into turning it into something, because the moment they turn into something your chances of having that domain name renew, you know, go to the roof.

Speaker 1: 1:37:20

So it's really also predictive in the sorry, not predictive, that's the wrong word preemptive in say before they drop or before they're about to drop, I'm going to try to do something, yeah, and then you can potentially guess what they're gonna do with it absolutely. And so you could then say, hey, this isn't being used. How about a free link in bio coupon to this company, or you do whatever to get it renewed, or they're using it, and then you can say your renewals coming up correct, you know, or something, and yeah, I'm to tell you something that I've always said about Pamletics and about our data in general.

Speaker 2: 1:37:56

Um, that I knew is going to sound weird, but I really believe that, and at least everyone that has used our data has confirmed my weird saying the biggest limitation of our data is the creativity of the person sitting in front of it, because it's so deep and we try to be as complete as possible because of all the different data points that we collect. What we're trying to do, or at least what is one of the most important uses of it, is to paint a picture. So every single data point is not the entire picture, but every data point, every angle that we analyze a domain name, it could be. Let's look at an email. If they're using an SSL, what type of SSL? What type of CMS are they using? Are they using a blogging system? Are they using an e-commerce platform? If yes, which one? All these things are different strokes of brush of a painting that I'm trying to paint and that painting is the face of the customer standing behind the domain name.

Speaker 2: 1:39:13

So looking at the e-commerce might be an eyebrows. That painting is the face of the customer standing behind the domain name. So looking at the e-commerce might be an eyebrows. Looking at if they're using analytics might be just the shape of the nose. But every one of these things, not by themselves, but all together, they paint you a picture, and these, for registries and registrars alike, is really important, because the moment that you know that picture, then you know what to do next yeah, and a domain investor could do the same.

Speaker 2: 1:39:39

Absolutely, absolutely for, for them, for them. Let's say that the customer is not a customer, but in that case, you are painting a type, a type, yeah, like. This is my industry, this is my niche, this is my market, this is what this domain name can give me, so it can really be. This is why I say it's really a matter of creativity. And obviously, one thing, and and and I and I would hate myself for not saying this, sorry I'm taking so long is that it's been great one of the things that we really pride ourselves, emiliano and I and all the Domainsbot team is that we're just eight at this moment.

Speaker 2: 1:40:20

We're very tiny.

Speaker 1: 1:40:22

Eight okay.

Speaker 2: 1:40:25

It's just that we really want to be and are part of the process. We're not just going to give you a username and a password, say okay, log into Panalytics and now you're off to the races. No, it doesn't work like that. We want to be and we put to each one of our customers. I personally spend with each one of our customers the time to understand what it is that they do, what it is that we can, that we can. You know that our data can help and we really put ourselves out there, you know, as part of what we do. You know it's not a joke when I say that when you work with Pandalytics, you get a piece of the panda, because of the fact that no, and you can ask it around at all the companies that work with us.

Speaker 2: 1:41:12

You know it can be, as let's look at the data together, let's find innovative ideas together, let's try to, you know, find what is in the data, that you're doing things. The data can help. We will be part of that process and we will make you more data driven. You know, and it's a process and it's a process, but the thing is that it's never a username and a password or a newsletter. You talk to Daniel, you talk to Emiliano and we put each one of our perspectives into the process. You know, when we kind of restyled ourselves.

Speaker 2: 1:42:00

You know, one of the different sentences that we say is with the human part of data, and you never have to forget that. Everybody says yeah, you know, data is the new oil, right? Yeah, that's true, but oil is good. If data is oil, you know data is the new oil, right? Yeah, that's true, but oil is good, it's got you if all. If data is oil, you know, for your car you don't need oil, you need gasoline, and those are two different things yeah, yeah, every time I look at data, it's always different than what I thought it was going to be.

Speaker 1: 1:42:28

The outcomes are always, is always, different. You know, and it's, and it's funny, and you get so stuck in your ideas that you believe, you totally believe it yourself. And then you look at the numbers and you're just like whoa I've had those moments that this is so many times.

Speaker 1: 1:42:46

You know, like we've done different landing pages on the um, on the website, we've different. We had a person who designed Viagra landing pages. So we were thinking to ourselves you know what this guy targets? Men in their middle ages, mostly in the United States, canada, uk, different places like that. That is the perfect landing page. And then we had another one that we had and another and someone who built it differently and it's kind of a strange looking one. I'm this is kind of stupid looking and that one converts better than the viagra one.

Speaker 1: 1:43:19

But you would think that you know, pfizer pumping um viagra to middle-aged people, having millions of people go to this landing page, would have converted the best, because we thought that that's the target and obviously I was. I was wrong and we don't use that one like we used to. So it's just there's. You know it's always interesting, always interesting data that comes up in whatever you do. So how can anybody contact you or do you want them? Just go to the website and ask for a demo, cause you have demos on there, ways to contact you. What do you got?

Speaker 2: 1:43:48

Absolutely. You can come to Domainspot. There's a very Italian email address that people can contact us directly, which is ciao at domainsbotcom. But you know my email address daniel at domainsbotcom, emiliano at domainsbotcom. You can contact us directly to see if we can help you, let's say, in being more data aware and taking advantage of this knowledge to really make a difference, because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. If we don't make a difference, why are we here, right?

Speaker 1: 1:44:29

It's like why are you showing up at ICANN meetings if you don't make a difference.

Speaker 2: 1:44:33

You should be home, and that's kind of what we try to do and we really do it with a lot of heart and a lot of passion. I can tell you that.

Speaker 1: 1:44:45

It is, and working with you and seeing you in action and hearing about you from our colleagues. What you're seeing here in the video is what you're going to get um from, from uh him and uh his team. So he totally, totally means it. So, but thanks for your time. I hope everybody enjoyed this one. I certainly did. I think this is a great show and I'm really happy that you came, so I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:45:07

I apologize again for the fact that god really didn't give me synthesis. In a world that is coming so focused and synthetic, I'm kind of the exact opposite.

Speaker 1: 1:45:18

And I love it, and there's nothing wrong with it at all. All right, thanks, my friend.

Speaker 2: 1:45:21

Thank you so much, jeff. It's been really really a pleasure being here and I'm glad I was able to kind of share my story.

Speaker 1: 1:45:30

There we go. I'll talk to you soon.